goblin
Reged: 31/03/2007
Posts: 1389
Loc: down yur me anzum
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Reading today that Tom Southam has been granted a place in Team GB, after being told by Brailsford that he would never wear GB colours again after the Madrid debacle, why hasn't Wegelius been given the same chance for the Worlds. He's on top form in the Tour of Germany and I would have thought the course would have suited him. Surely, no matter what your feelings are towards the man, if it's time to forgive and forget for one then why not the other?
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wuverley
Reged: 16/05/2008
Posts: 4043
Loc: Man of Kent
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I think I read somewhere that Wegelius had said he wouldn't want to ride for Britain again, after all the aggro. Southam has obviously let it be known that he would be keen to.
Southam appears to have been forgiven because he's apologised, well that's sort of what it says in the comic.
I get the impression that Wegelius isn't likely to do that now.
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Invicta
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Bluebeard
Reged: 27/03/2008
Posts: 527
Loc: Brixton innit
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Is there an element to this where Wegelius was quite successful and got a good contract with Liquigas, while Southam was not so much so, and ended up cap in hand going to Brailsford?
Wegelius doesn't seem to me the type who enjoys aggro, but I would have said that he was one of the six best British riders, and this is a course that would suit him more than Miller, Cav or Hammond. If things were different, he might even be team leader...
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You can take a bike to water but you cannot make it drink
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bigoldsideofham
Reged: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2288
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BC are fools for treating him like crap in the first place. err so what he ignored team tactics and people took that to mean he was riding for the ITI'S but that is conjecture. Looking at the [****] BC road racing tactics in this olympics can you blame him? I dont BC were wrong with what they asked the pair to do and they did what they (and i) felt was right. Wegelius is one of the top pros we have ever produced - fact!
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wuverley
Reged: 16/05/2008
Posts: 4043
Loc: Man of Kent
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What did Charly do for the British team at Madrid?
He rode for Italy, clear as day. What was right about that?
Its an old argument now, but Wegelius is obviously not keen to get involved with the British team or there might have been a rapprochement. Southam, it seems, is keen, and so has managed to do it.
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El_Cid
Reged: 02/08/2007
Posts: 1499
Loc: Ilkley, Yorks
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BOSH - I think you are wrong about BC being harsh on Wegelius. Fair punishment for a deserter.
You are right about our performance at the Olympic RR - largely a poor show. A team of hard men - eg Downing, Wilkinson, Stephens, Oliphant could have done better.
But I do realise why BC went the way they did, they have a plan to follow, and largely it works. They have the system in place to learn and adapt when relative failures like this occur.
I disagree about Wegelius as one of our best. Where's his palmares - what has he won in his long continental career. He is a bunch tower and a bit of a climber, but he is not a winner. That is another reason not to pick him to lead our team.
Southam is a funny sort to pick. He is not good in the bunch, and although he has backed up giant haematocrit man Hayles , there are many UK riders who have performed better than him this year.
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"TODAY, WE RIDE"
Edited by El_Cid (05/09/2008 10:15)
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bigoldsideofham
Reged: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2288
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Palmares? Realy El cid - im somewhat surprised! Success measured by personal gain?????? I said he was one of the best 'pro's' we have ever produced not winners. Many victories have come ut of his graft and he is a consistant quiet hard worker well respected by all but his own countrymen. Personally if you ask me if id rather be associated with successful drugs cheats like Millar and Simpson, gobshites like Cav or quiet workers like Thomas, Cummings and Wegelius i know which role models i would chose (world champs aside). 
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El_Cid
Reged: 02/08/2007
Posts: 1499
Loc: Ilkley, Yorks
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I admire your stance BOSH.
I think the BC have missed a trick and should adopt the BOSH policy of picking a team of jolly nice chaps.
I did n't actually quote any of my own role models (Dylan Thomas, Winston Churchill, Vincent Van-Gogh, Ernest Hemingway, Fausto Coppi, Sean Kelly, Hunter S Thompson, Judy Garland, Oliver Reed, Bill Werbeniuk)
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"TODAY, WE RIDE"
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ACatNamedBugno
Reged: 27/06/2008
Posts: 166
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"Gobshites like Cav?" Sorry to deviate, but I really don't understand this train of thought. This has doubtless all been dissected many times before, but I tend to dip in and out, so apologies.
Call me an unreconciled jingoist, but 20 years of scouring the results pages for the top-30 places in obscure italian chippers of the likes of Jamie Burrows and even erstwhile sprint hero Jez Hunt have led me to the position where I'm prepared to give a British out-and-out winner such as Cav an awful lot of leeway. To my way of thinking, he has more than earnt the right to bite the heads off drippy journalists asking banal questions in the aftermath of elbow-fraying sprints. Surely it's this self-same ego that has propelled him to such giddy heights - four effing stage wins in a single tour! Gob-shite? Who cares, he walks on water.
Wegelius is certainly a doughty worker and a pretty talented climber, but come on! I can't imagine even the man himself staking a claim to being one of these islands' finest ever. That said, who knows what he could have achieved with a modicum of the manxman's self belief?
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El_Cid
Reged: 02/08/2007
Posts: 1499
Loc: Ilkley, Yorks
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Forza, Gianni.
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"TODAY, WE RIDE"
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scm
Reged: 24/06/2006
Posts: 1735
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I've not seen a huge amount of evidence of Cav's alleged ego, which presumably is shorthand for being self-centred. In every post race interview of Cav I've seen he's been copious in his praise for the work his team-mates have put in to get him to the finish in a good position and that makes him determined to win to repay them.
If that's gob-shite, then it's a pity more people don't have it.
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fizban
Reged: 15/09/2007
Posts: 922
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He's confident in his abilities which can come across as arrogant, what did he say during the TdF "I'm the fastest rider in the last 500ms, that's not arrogance just accurate" ?
On the other hand he knows he's not god (As God rides Campaq) and will admit he has weakness (hills, not getting bonus points in stages)
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i before e except in Leipheimer
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bigoldsideofham
Reged: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2288
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Sorry bugno i totally disagree which is why this forum is so good! Treating someone differently and giving them more leeway to missbehave because they have talent is a total nonsense. His attitude is disgusting, in many ways the petulant child or worse - like a pro footballer. He wins and that is great meaning he no doubt trains bloody hard but he is a role model. As such he shouldnt throw little tantrums when he has let himself(and others) down or for no apparent reason (not wishing to provide an interview for example) when a simple authoratative 'NO' would suffice. A patrone would slap his snivelling little arse and shut his whining pussy gob for him but unfortunately theres no-one left to do it!!! (you are however quite right - its just my personal opinion........consider it an ALI 'v' Marciano type question . Who was the greatest??????? Clearly Rocky but we wont go there!!) 
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goblin
Reged: 31/03/2007
Posts: 1389
Loc: down yur me anzum
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Big Fella, your pro footballer analogy is quite a good point to raise. There is no doubt that youngsters are emulating what their peers are doing, you only have to visit a junior football match to see youngsters effing and blinding at refs/linesmen and fellow players to prove the case.
And you are right, Cav will be seen as a role model by many youngsters; whether or not you see juniors acting petulant or swearing at each other at the finish line in the future remains to be seen.
In both cases the way a child acts is solely down to parental upbringing and it is up to them to make sure that their children behave in a proper and correct manner and to blame any misbehaving deeds on a role model is just an excuse for bad parenting IMO.
and for those excusing Cav's behaviour by saying that you can't be gentlemanly and a good sprinter - I've never heard so much bull.
and I am a fan of Cav by the way.
PS. Wasn't this thread about Wegelius? 
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wuverley
Reged: 16/05/2008
Posts: 4043
Loc: Man of Kent
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Zabel seems quite polite.
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Invicta
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goblin
Reged: 31/03/2007
Posts: 1389
Loc: down yur me anzum
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I rest my case 
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ACatNamedBugno
Reged: 27/06/2008
Posts: 166
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Good stuff chaps. Wish I'd found this site many moons ago. My wife and young children might disagree.
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wuverley
Reged: 16/05/2008
Posts: 4043
Loc: Man of Kent
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Bill Werbeniuk ( check spelling), what a sportsman. the poor bloke had to stop when they disallowed lager as a refreshment. Imagine a sport where 10 pints is a performance enhancing drug, in a major tournament 15 was not unheard of.
Hurricane Higgins got by on whisk(e)y
And a few fags
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goblin
Reged: 31/03/2007
Posts: 1389
Loc: down yur me anzum
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Quote:
Imagine a sport where 10 pints is a performance enhancing drug,
That would be darts then ... Cliff Lazerenko; Jocky Wilson et al. Who could forget the classic Not the Nine o'clock News sketch: Triple brandy, triple brandy, double scotch.
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