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colnagodram



Reged: 06/04/2008
Posts: 769
Loc: Langholm, Dumfriesshire. 10 mi...
Armstrong
      #37069 - 08/10/2008 20:59

Reading the Wed. comment ,seems like Lance Armstrong is gettin' things his way already.

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rover1971



Reged: 09/06/2008
Posts: 349
Loc: Aberdeen, Scotland
Re: Armstrong [Re: colnagodram]
      #37071 - 08/10/2008 21:20

Same as Cipo' this spring then
I did notice the Wednesday comment, another spot of Lance bashing by the comic, when did cycling journos become so opinionated rather than just report facts?

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eric09



Reged: 14/11/2007
Posts: 675
Loc: Doc Fuentes' lab
Re: Armstrong [Re: rover1971]
      #37075 - 08/10/2008 21:36

It is just a few days! Come on just let the guy race! Then we can pass judgement.

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PaulB



Reged: 13/06/2006
Posts: 90
Re: Armstrong [Re: rover1971]
      #37081 - 08/10/2008 22:39

Quote:

Same as Cipo' this spring then
I did notice the Wednesday comment, another spot of Lance bashing by the comic, when did cycling journos become so opinionated rather than just report facts?




First rule of journos "Never let the facts get in the way of a good story."


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wuverley



Reged: 16/05/2008
Posts: 4046
Loc: Man of Kent
Re: Armstrong [Re: eric09]
      #37086 - 08/10/2008 23:07

Quote:

It is just a few days! Come on just let the guy race! Then we can pass judgement.




I agree. Its a sensible decision by the UCI to let him race 10 days early. Some more sensible stuff from the UCI would be most welcome.

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Invicta


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dang



Reged: 16/06/2006
Posts: 958
Loc: twixt 7 & ?
Re: Armstrong [Re: wuverley]
      #37089 - 08/10/2008 23:16

I'm already getting tired of seeing his picture on all the covers



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MagnersCattlegridCon



Reged: 25/04/2008
Posts: 648
Re: Armstrong [Re: dang]
      #37091 - 08/10/2008 23:33

i imagine it would have been a tough call to make but i believe they made the right one.

Re wednesday comment: just me or did anyone else notice Thursday 29th october for 2009 TDF route release? 29th october isn't a thursday til 2009, think they might have spoiled any surprise announcements by then......

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Only a true cyclist knows the taste of tarmac.


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bfergie



Reged: 19/04/2008
Posts: 3653
Loc: Sticks ,Scotlandshire
Re: Armstrong [Re: MagnersCattlegridCon]
      #37100 - 09/10/2008 08:43

Surely it's better he races slightly early since there are doping testers crawling about races and the chance of being tested is that bit higher..what would be worse, Armstrong in a race, in the public or Armstrong in a "training camp" somewhere in Outer Mongolia learning the performance enhancing effects of fermented yak milk!!!

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I now accept PAYPAL!!!!


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Bluebeard



Reged: 27/03/2008
Posts: 528
Loc: Brixton innit
Re: Armstrong [Re: rover1971]
      #37102 - 09/10/2008 09:06

Quote:

I did notice the Wednesday comment, another spot of Lance bashing by the comic, when did cycling journos become so opinionated rather than just report facts?




Haven't read it yet, but is the comment not a Leader style article? By its nature, something that is scheduled to be opinion? In fairness, by the time the Comment is out, we'll all have read about three different though roughly similar versions of the story anyway, rather than return to work.

I would take the attitude that journalists have three duties:
Firstly, that the news is initially reported as bare facts (information);
Secondly that a degree of investigative work is attempted on providing a background and development of the story, though the means of interviews and research and presented as feature or associated article (knowledge);
Thirdly, then an opinion that is cogent with the view of the paper or magazine is then collated from all the above information and knowledge (wisdom, at least in theory).

Unfortunately, these days, the only place you can rely on for pure information is the red-tops owing to the brevity of their articles, as the boradsheets tend to pad their articles out with opinion masquerading as information. But then, in most cases with the broadsheets, you already share that opinion, or have had yours influenced by it - comparatively few people buy papers with differing agendas.

We within the world of cycling in Britain have many divergent attitudes, but only one weekly organ of note, which cannot cater opinion-wise to the masses. However, it does make one very wise decision. It tends to agree with me

As regards the article, perhaps it was a little bit overly zealous on the case, but I do fear that the UCI is cashing Armstrong's verbal cheques a lot more than is wise. He is a huge draw for people who were otherwise not interested in cycling previously, and is likely to draw in many lapsed, bug spending types. Add to that the fact that he is doing it to "raise awareness of cancer", and UCI cannot really turn him away without being seen as a spoilsport, or hating cancer suffers (because not enough people are aware of cancer). It does seem to me that if Armstrong was aware of the rule, there should have been a discussion with UCI about altering / navigating the rule (as also should have been the case with Cipo) beforehand, rather than a Yes Minister style announcement ("It's in the Programme").

And if Armstrong is REALLY that anxious to make an appearance in Australia to "Raise awareness" rather than win things and tell everyone how he is the greatest and put in an early stake for the team leader role at a race for which Contador will probably be on a beach, why not appear at the Herald Sun Tour this time next year as a wrap up to the season? It sounds like a good event that could be assisted by the hoopla that goes with an Armstrong appearance, and would benefit from having the Livestrong Campaign at it, rather than reduced by it.

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You can take a bike to water but you cannot make it drink


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Bryan48



Reged: 28/07/2008
Posts: 99
Loc: Co Cavan .Ireland
Re: Armstrong [Re: Bluebeard]
      #37110 - 09/10/2008 10:46

You'd think Armstrong was the only one doing anything for cancer.There a re many people , doctors, scientists and lay people all doing great work and never get a mention.
The idea of Armstrong as the 'great saviour'is becoming a bit tiresome.

But money talks and he has plenty of it, and Race Organisers and UCI people will bend to his wishes.


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MacDaddy



Reged: 07/07/2008
Posts: 135
Loc: Gloucestershire(ish)
Re: Armstrong [Re: dang]
      #37115 - 09/10/2008 12:47

Quote:

I'm already getting tired of seeing his picture on all the covers






Hmm, I tend to agree. Not that I have anything against Lance per se but cycling as a sport has to be bigger than the cyclists who partake, no?
Since the rumours of LA's return started to circulate there's been little else in cycling media and it's all becoming sooooooooo boring.
If he wants to ride the Tour de Lance again, for whatever reason, then let him but he is only one rider in the peleton at the end of the day.

OK, that's the blue touch paper well and trully lit, time for me to bugger off

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I like cake!


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buzz



Reged: 27/01/2007
Posts: 1194
Loc: Wicklow, Ireland
Re: Armstrong [Re: MacDaddy]
      #37121 - 09/10/2008 14:26

Good post mate - Blue touchpaper well and truly lit!

Well, I'm interested in his comeback - LA polarises opinions in our sport like no other, so here's mine!

He is a cancer survivor and he chooses to use his profile as one of the worlds top sportsmen to raise cash for research and treatment into the disease, surely he deserves some credit for that. How can anyone criticise him for supporting such a cause?

Re his comeback, I've got a hunch he won't make the TDF, I don't think he will get that far. Call me cynical, but I think it will prove too much of a task after a few years away. However the ultimate comeback was from cancer, he's been there, done that. It will be interesting if that gives him the drive to see it through and makes it to Monaco for the start in 2009.

Re the publicity, it is aimed at mass media and the general public, not the kind of article that should be given page after page in the comic. I would rather read about his and other riders training methods and equipment.

If he does make it to the TDF, it should be good for our sport in terms of publicity and profile, as he is still adamant he is clean

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'Bingo's the man'


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scm



Reged: 24/06/2006
Posts: 1735
Re: Armstrong [Re: Bryan48]
      #37145 - 09/10/2008 19:17

Quote:

You'd think Armstrong was the only one doing anything for cancer.There a re many people , doctors, scientists and lay people all doing great work and never get a mention.



If they're all doing "great work" how come the incidence of cancer is still increasing?

I share your "great saviour" sentiment, though.


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ToneFloat



Reged: 13/08/2007
Posts: 97
Re: Armstrong [Re: buzz]
      #37178 - 10/10/2008 09:07

Quote:

If he does make it to the TDF, it should be good for our sport in terms of publicity and profile, as he is still adamant he is clean




Yeah but Floyd Landis is still adamant that he was clean, and we all know how much of a whopper that is. Hamilton has never had the guts to admit his doping, as far as I'm aware. Virenque reckoned he was clean for how many years? Same with Riis, Museeuw and all the other cheats.


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johnstrac



Reged: 05/11/2006
Posts: 761
Re: Armstrong [Re: ToneFloat]
      #37222 - 10/10/2008 17:19

Riis has put his hand up.

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Nobody wins unless everybody wins.


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Birilo



Reged: 15/08/2006
Posts: 2
Re: Armstrong [Re: colnagodram]
      #37237 - 10/10/2008 19:52


Absolutely. Already his return is characterised by Lance throwing his weight around - want a ride in someone's team - check; want its leader to accept demotion despite 3 grand tour wins - check; want the UCI to bend the knee - check. All this and he hasn't got near a road race yet!

How did the EPO get into Lance's six 1999 samples? I know we will never have 'proof' but we do have doubt and the fact that he can get his way so easily only increases this.


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bfergie



Reged: 19/04/2008
Posts: 3653
Loc: Sticks ,Scotlandshire
Re: Armstrong [Re: johnstrac]
      #37239 - 10/10/2008 19:58

Quote:

Riis has put his hand up.





That's how he controls his glove puppets Andy and Frank!!!

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I now accept PAYPAL!!!!


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Bluebeard



Reged: 27/03/2008
Posts: 528
Loc: Brixton innit
Re: Armstrong [Re: bfergie]
      #37465 - 14/10/2008 11:56

I cannot get over Armstrong's latest statement. EVERYONE is out to get him. He complains about "the problems that I've got with the organisers, journalists and fans" could distract him from his real goal - "to focus world attention on the fight against cancer."

1. It's a cycle race, not the management of the WHO.
2. So only the sponsors are on Armstrong's side.

I do admire his return from cancer, and on a good day I admire his public speaking on the matter (very good interview with him on youtube somewhere I think was linked to from here a few months back), but it really does start to appear that he think that he is the messiah of both cancer and cycling. He's done a lot for both in different ways, but statements like this are collossal hubris

Simeoni has an interesting few words to say on a certain site which has news about cycling. I hope that his squad gets selected for the Giro and he embarrasses Armstrong on the road.

Rant concluded for now.

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You can take a bike to water but you cannot make it drink


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ToneFloat



Reged: 13/08/2007
Posts: 97
Re: Armstrong [Re: johnstrac]
      #37702 - 16/10/2008 10:21

Quote:

Riis has put his hand up.




I know he has. I said "Virenque reckoned he was clean for how many years? Same with Riis, Museeuw and all the other cheats," meaning Virenque, Riis and Museeuw (amongst others) all kept quiet about it for years before owning up to what we all knew anyway.


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TheMightyThor



Reged: 13/06/2006
Posts: 204
Re: Armstrong [Re: ToneFloat]
      #37704 - 16/10/2008 11:29

Riis is a lying, cheating weasel.

If he told me the sky was blue I'd go out and double-check.


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