kieran
Reged: 11/07/2007
Posts: 660
Loc: currently in Atlanta.
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hi there
is anyone using periodization techniques in the training routine? i`d be interested to see if anyone's had similar results or experiences.
i played around with Joe Friels book last season, but as i begin to start my new training year and pre base training i`ve committed to taking it a little more seriously.
basically now what i`m focusing on is building up a strong foundation of aerobic base fitness. This involves in this early stage relatively easy efforts below ones lactate threshold.
i thought this would be easy, especially as i`ve spent the last few months ripping it up on fast paced group rides and doing a lot of anaerobic intervals and the like, but its been a real eye opener.
for instance my ride today was about 3hrs long.
30 min warm up in zones 1 and below for me personally that 115-144 bpm and below) just to get me out the city and to a point i can start to work harder without too much interference form traffic.
2x 25min intervals in zone 2 with 7 min rest interval in zone 1 (again for me thats 145-157bpm at the moment)
rest gentle ride home in zone 1
at least for the first interval i felt great always working at just under a discomfort level, spinning easily up hills at a slow pace but also working on the down hill sections to keep my heart rate in the right zone. by the end of the first 25mins i felt like i could go all day like this,
however by the time i started the 2nd 25 mins i was toast!  i kept in zone but i hurt so much to stay there.
felt strange the ego took a kicking especially as i thought i had been going fairly easy from the start. why would i blow up like that? a few weeks before i was knocking out century's twice a week.
however when i got home i reviewed my data and saw that i had completed the first section with a average speed over the first 10miles of 22.97mph!!! with out even trying and its a steady uphill climb, mostly around 1-3%, all the way out, climbing 77m in vertical ascent.
I had a slight tail wind its true but i was cruising along, not concerned about the speed at all just staying in the right zone.
But i realized if i can keep with the program slowly working on my base fitness i could easily see a 25mph average over the same course, and in the same zone.
i realise that perhaps for now 2x25 intervals are a little ambitious thats why i popped like that, but if i slowly increase them say 5min per week i could be holding that output for well over an hour at a time, before the end of my base training and just in zone 2 as well!
sorry for the ramble but its a very interesting insight for me to have learned.
still can`t figure out why doing a century could be so much easier than working on a steady consistent low level interval though. the bodies a mysterious thing.
for anyone interested i`m basing my current training around Joe Friels cyclist training bible and Thomas Chapple`s base training for cyclists both guys are from the same school of thought regards training.
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bianchisattva
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bigoldsideofham
Reged: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2288
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Good report mate. Im using that diary for this season only as a general monitoring faclity as im still seeing enormous improvements doing it my way at the mo. Was thinking about doing it friel's way in 12 months, just keeping the data in the same format this year will hopefully make direct comparison and review easier next year. Keep us updated.
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kieran
Reged: 11/07/2007
Posts: 660
Loc: currently in Atlanta.
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thanks B.O.H
following a program has been great for me and i really look forward to expanding on it this season coming,
especially when i get my new powertap 2.4 in a week or so 
I'm on a shop team as well for next year, so if my training goes well and i aviod injury over the winter I'm hoping for a great season personally (regardless of where i might place).
actually after a week or so of following this i can already see improvements in my aerobic fitness level. but the next 4-5 weeks should be even more interesting. especially with the first big snow forecast
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bianchisattva
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wuverley
Reged: 16/05/2008
Posts: 4044
Loc: Man of Kent
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I hope your training and racing goes well.
But I was wondering, as someone who has only ever hovered on the edge of club/racing life, how does a "normal" club member become a supported/sponsored rider, do you have to put your name forward, schmooze etc or are you just spotted? I assume the very best riders are just spotted, at the age of 16 or whatever by a coach from BC (or whoever in this country). I know there are schemes for children in cycling as in most sports, but how does it work for older riders?
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Invicta
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bigoldsideofham
Reged: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2288
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Win, a lot! 
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bfergie
Reged: 19/04/2008
Posts: 3653
Loc: Sticks ,Scotlandshire
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What???? How will dry dog food help get you sponsored??? 
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I now accept PAYPAL!!!!
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kieran
Reged: 11/07/2007
Posts: 660
Loc: currently in Atlanta.
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thanks for the support
for me personally it was down to riding a lot with the shop club 2/3 times a week and being one of the stronger riders on the runs and expressing an interest in racing in general.
however we don`t have a huge team compared to some shops in the city so i guess it was easier in that sense. Also i`ll be racing along with the shop owner so its to his advantage as well strategically to have myself and my friend on the team next season.
i really appreciate the opportunity and the deals i get on parts/bikes (like my new powertap SL 2.4) but at the same time it doesn`t really cost him anything financially to do it.
I do think though that they enjoy supporting the sport with in their own area.
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bianchisattva
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matty
Reged: 03/04/2008
Posts: 8
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Are you sure your not going into lactate threshold because your legs shouldn't be shot after that short stint in zone 2. should they??
is your zone 1 -2 (60-80% max HR)?
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kieran
Reged: 11/07/2007
Posts: 660
Loc: currently in Atlanta.
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personally my zone 2 is 145-157bpm
i`ve no idea what percentage of my MHR that is cause i use a different system to go by.
basically my lactate threshold at the moment is around 177bpm +/- 5-10%(as tested last week) i can sustain a 30minute ITT at that level on an indoor trainer, without blowing up completely.
its not a super scientific system i used to determine it but i have a low budget however after i warm up i do a 30min ITT as hard as i can.
after 10mins i press the lap button on my heart rate monitor; the average BPM for the last 20mins is a fairly good indication of what your lactate threshold is. of course the more you test the better an idea you`ll have of what you level is. from there i can figure out my zones...
I took this system for joel friels "the cyclists training bible"
regarding my first ride i mentioned i think the problem i had had when i started my new training year was that i had lost the aerobic base of my training, were as my anaerobic fitness was still somewhat intact.
by forcing myself to remain constantly in that lower threshold level i revealed (apparently) that indeed there seemed to be something to the idea that we can have anaerobic fitness whilst neglecting our aerobic foundation.
however the idea is that the greater your aerobic fitness the higher you can build your anaerobic peak.
Some coaches say that this anaerobic peak only take 6-9 weeks to develop, so by going slower in the base period you effectively create the ability to go faster by the time race season comes. they use the image of a pyramid, the larger the base the higher the pyramid can go.
I for my self, having only followed this system in a committed way for the last month or so, can already see the benefit.
my first experience was recreated on the 2nd ride, more or less, but then i`ve slowly been increasing the durations of each interval week by week, now i can sustain that level for intervals at 2x30min with a 5min rest interval in between. (2x30x5)
by the time i start my base 1 period i hope to be doing close to 2x50x5 intervals in zone 2 beginning also to start work in zone 3
by the time i finish my base period i hope to be turning out 90min intervals in zone 3 and looking to start work on my anaerobic fitness in time for the start of the season in April.
i`ll coincide this regular monthly testing and hopefully in the very near future a new powertap wheel.
we`ll see how things progress.
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bianchisattva
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matty
Reged: 03/04/2008
Posts: 8
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am i the only one who finds periodization confusing i have only just started cycling in august 08' beforehand i was a reasonable club runner who would run pretty much the same training pattern year round.
when coming to cycling the book i'm reading is taking the preparation period as november through to start of february then a specialization period from february to start of may which would tie in with my proposed racing season from may - late august.
anyway in this book endorsed by chris carmichael it's saying the majority of my nov-feb general preparation should be longer rides around 3-5hours at 60-80% so this is what i've been doing.
my rides are consistantly 60-80% and from 3-5hours covering distances around 50 to 80 miles. I don't do any intervals just keep a steady heart rate in this zone keeping intensity down on hills.
therefore i'm a bit confused that you seem to do intervals? am i doing it wrong or is this just because we are using different training guides?
anyway the book then says in the specialization period i then start intervals and sprint drills to develop speed and power.
so any advice would be appreciated.
happy riding.
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kieran
Reged: 11/07/2007
Posts: 660
Loc: currently in Atlanta.
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i think perhaps the confusion comes from the idea that "intervals" are only used to build speed and power.
however low threshold training intervals (LTT) are perhaps just a slightly more specific example/explanation of what you were talking about.
using lactate threshold heart rate as a bench mark over % of maximum heart rate.
my rides for now mostly are in zone 1 (of my HR system)with intervals into zone 2. which mostly likely is pretty much what you yourself are doing, just that its presented slightly differently.
the thinking is that % of MHR can be way off (10-15bpm) for certain individuals if using the regular methods to determine it. which could really effect the intensity of ones training above or below whats recommended. however lactate threshold is more easily determined and can move up or down without necessarily seeing a change in one MHR.
80% of MHR at the start of the season and at the end could vary greatly in relationship to one lactate threshold, and yet still be 80% of MHR
so the idea is that Lactate threshold HR making it easier to dial in your training to specific zones both aerobic and anaerobic
also the main benefit i`m seeing my self from this method is from keeping my heart rate in that specific zone continually, with out the coasting down hills or easy spinning with the wind behind me. Personally it made my rides a lot harder overall.
i think that when i get my Powertap set up i`ll be able to dial this in even more so.
of course there are many different coaching methods each with there own systems and i can`t claim to say if one is better or not than the rest, Mr Carmichael has an obvious pedigree behind him.
Perhaps more important is just sticking to the one you choose.
hope that helps explain what i meant.
cheers
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bianchisattva
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wuverley
Reged: 16/05/2008
Posts: 4044
Loc: Man of Kent
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Just to stick my oar in.
Intervals, in the traditional sense, are usually level3 and above, over short times. For example, sprinting for 30-60 seconds, or charging up hills for a minute then resting/ticking over for 2 minutes or whatever.
These shouldn't, traditionally, be used in the "off" season, that's the time for "getting the miles in".
Kieran is using a more modern approach, which uses interval training at an aerobic level, I think, while still "getting the miles in", in the traditional way.
Like all coaching, you pays your money and takes your choice, there are some common ideas in training but there are also differences between coaches.
Unless you have a lot of experience, its hard to know what might work for you, but its probably best to stick to one system for at least a season, to see what happens.
Again just my twopennyworth, I have no particular insight. I will be interested to hear what Kieran's training leads to next season, as long as he wants to share it with us 
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Invicta
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kieran
Reged: 11/07/2007
Posts: 660
Loc: currently in Atlanta.
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Quote:
I will be interested to hear what Kieran's training leads to next season,
you and me both,  for now its hard to keep it steady and slow and commit to the program, many of the more experienced older team riders are "race to fitness" types or "always fit".
they want to go hard all the time on group rides and being old skool don`t think so much to periodical training. (they haven`t tried it either though).
time will tell though, for sure i`ll keep you informed.
its a great experiment though that helps to keep the training fresh and interesting. even when its snowing and -11c (with the wind chill)
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bianchisattva
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matty
Reged: 03/04/2008
Posts: 8
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Thats a good help thank you both..
I am finding it easier and easier every week with mileages that a month ago would be hard work are now fairly ordinary and easy. My speed hasn't really increased that much overall but i can obviously go further with less fatigue and feel able to repeat rides day after day.
I also found keeping in the range difficult to start with mainly on downhills where instead of coasting down and dropping heart rate i have to really put in the effort to keep heart rate up. great fun.
i'm dying to go full pelt but must wait to january!! aaaggghhh
anyway thanks for the advice and good luck in the racing season!
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