The SKY is falling!

[buzz]

Exactly my point.

Nature or nurture is as relevant to Sky doping or not as is the chicken or the egg coming first. Isn't that what we are discussing?

[BeSpoke]

Eggs came first... laid by the creature that eventually evolved into a chicken. It only got there because of natural selection...nurture drives nature.... a creature evolves to become efficient in employing behaviour that aids survival.

Sport is a reflection of life... in fact it is a perfect example of natural selection in that it is natural that people will be tempted to follow any path that will enable them to survive...

[bfergie]

Sky falling...chickens...chicken little...amazing how we get everything covered eventually!!

[Cycling Athlete]

Sport is a reflection of life... in fact it is a perfect example of natural selection in that it is natural that people will be tempted to follow any path that will enable them to survive...

so if we are saying it is natural for people to 'take the least line of resistance to survive.'eg: Be competitive in sport. Then by that token does that mean Bassons/kimmage were by, the very nature of 'natural selection' not going to survive in the world of professional cycling as they were not prepared to take the 'the least line of resistance' ? So in the Darwinian sense then, the dopers did what they needed to do to 'survive'. So the question could be 'Did they cheat?' In the Darwinian / selfish gene sense.

and as BePoke states above... Does it mean we are all ok to bend the rules? Moral and physical to survive in whichever 'jungle' we find ourselves in? If the ultimate end is to survive: eg: sports/job promotion/physical attraction to others etc.

Now that's a humdinger.

ultimatley they are Fcuking doping cheats, but its still a good Q.

[buzz]

Deep. I reckon you guys are on drugs.....

[stepdot]

There are drugs in cycling? i don't believe it.

[wuverley]

so if we are saying it is natural for people to 'take the least line of resistance to survive.'eg: Be competitive in sport. Then by that token does that mean Bassons/kimmage were by, the very nature of 'natural selection' not going to survive in the world of professional cycling as they were not prepared to take the 'the least line of resistance' ? So in the Darwinian sense then, the dopers did what they needed to do to 'survive'. So the question could be 'Did they cheat?' In the Darwinian / selfish gene sense.

and as BePoke states above... Does it mean we are all ok to bend the rules? Moral and physical to survive in whichever 'jungle' we find ourselves in? If the ultimate end is to survive: eg: sports/job promotion/physical attraction to others etc.

Now that's a humdinger.

ultimatley they are Fcuking doping cheats, but its still a good Q.

Surely it depends if we're just physical beings, trying to survive and prosper because we have to, or we're animals that have some (possibly entirely spurious) philosophy that leads us to temper our behaviour.

Of course it may be that cooperation and sticking to rules is a survival strategy that humans have tended to find usefull. On the other hand it's not always best for any particular individual to just do what the rest of the group thinks they should.

[BeSpoke]

so if we are saying it is natural for people to 'take the least line of resistance to survive.'eg: Be competitive in sport. Then by that token does that mean Bassons/kimmage were by, the very nature of 'natural selection' not going to survive in the world of professional cycling as they were not prepared to take the 'the least line of resistance' ? So in the Darwinian sense then, the dopers did what they needed to do to 'survive'. So the question could be 'Did they cheat?' In the Darwinian / selfish gene sense.

and as BePoke states above... Does it mean we are all ok to bend the rules? Moral and physical to survive in whichever 'jungle' we find ourselves in? If the ultimate end is to survive: eg: sports/job promotion/physical attraction to others etc.
Now that's a humdinger.
ultimatley they are Fcuking doping cheats, but its still a good Q.

Rules and Morals don't exist in the animal world per say but animals cooperate and refrain from behaviour that is counter productive in terms of survival of the species.... eg predators aren't usually cannibalistic and often cooperate when it suits them. It could be said that the origin of many of the rules/morals that we live by are an extension of this..... We just took it a lot further by inventing additional ones and a range of punishments for those who transgress. No wonder then that there are many people out there who view many of the rules/morals we live and play by as arbitrary and are more than willing to bend or break them to gain an advantage over others.

EDIT.... looks like Wuv beat me to it

[Tony Short]

Its a lot simpler than some of this cod philosophy is hinting at. If you CHOOSE to be a member of a club or an organisation then you agree to abide by their rules and regulations, and If you CHOOSE to break those rules then you pay the penalty. Professional sportsmen have free will and they know theyre cheating when they take PEDs. Sticking a needle in your arm is not an involuntary response to an evolutionary process thats somehow beyond your control, its the conscious and calculated decision of a cold hearted and rationally thinking cheat who realises he can't win fair and square. I could be wrong but the idea that Lance and the rest are helpless victims of an inbuilt survival mechanism that drives them subconsciously to inject EPO and do blood bags is stretching it just a tad for me.

[buzz]

Its a lot simpler than some of this cod philosophy is hinting at. If you CHOOSE to be a member of a club or an organisation then you agree to abide by their rules and regulations, and If you CHOOSE to break those rules then you pay the penalty. Professional sportsmen have free will and they know theyre cheating when they take PEDs. Sticking a needle in your arm is not an involuntary response to an evolutionary process thats somehow beyond your control, its the conscious and calculated decision of a cold hearted and rationally thinking cheat who realises he can't win fair and square. I could be wrong but the idea that Lance and the rest are helpless victims of an inbuilt survival mechanism that drives them subconsciously to inject EPO and do blood bags is stretching it just a tad for me.

Choose is a word LA's team members may have issue with if you read some of their testimonies.....