Drugs in Cycling

[Ian]

A new pro gets a 2 year contract. If they do not perform and get results they are dropped and out of a job. Invariably they have given up on education without qualifications so will have problems getting a decent job and no doubt have spent many years of hard effort (by themselves and family) to get to that point. So the pressure on them to perform is tremendous. Therefore drugs in cycling is hardly surprising.

Also we, as fans, want to see long mountain stages with several climbs and 'super human' rides. That is not possible for mere humans. If we were more realistic and had less severe, shorter stages at slower speeds would it still have the same spectator appeal?

[ddraver]

6 hour stages do nothing for me...i watch the 1 hour highlight s at the end and i'm not sure i get ur XC bikers thing....whats wrongf with people running about at 3 am?!

one can be reasnobly sure that mr millar didn't used drugs and he was only 4 hours behind after 3500km...that wouldn't make much difference to me if i could say to myself i KNOW they re all clean, even with everyones assurances i still wonder even a little bit

but anway..... the WMTB forum thing was just to illustrate how little respect the sport has even from within the cycling community and thats a big shame because i'm sure alot of riders are doing it with heart and guts and its for them that the sport must continue.R.E.S..P.E.C.T to them (etc...etc)

but we ll see.....i fear we have a long road ahead but hopefully we are at least starting down it!

[leurfit]

I find it incredibly annoying that guilt is instantly assummed. Cycling is the most heavily scrutinised sport in the world when it comes to drugs. Cyclists are subject to every new and unscrutinsed test as it becomes available and are most often the first testbed for the tests. As a result, I believe there are some clean cyclists who pay a heavy price for the bad history associated with the sport. Yes there are cheats in this sport as in every other but riders deserve a reasonable chance to clear their names. There have been NUMEROUS occasions where these tests have been thrown out in court. In a proper court of law, a half-descent attorney could easily refute many of these tests which is why jail terms will never happen.

In the most tested sport in the world and one where the stage winner is automatically drug tested, why would ANYONE be stupid enough to take such a risk. Also, a single testoterone injection would have no performance value at all. For most drugs and artificial enhancement tools to work, they have to be administered in many doses over periods of time. But there's a lot of stupid reporters out there who know they sell papers with the biggest shock possible as opposed to the truth. So all the atheletes get tried in the court of a very uninformed public mostly because good journalism is a rare sight in the world of the soundbite.

Peter - Give it a chance. The fact is that NOT ONE PERSON ASSOCIATED WITH THE 2006 TOUR HAS ACTUALLY BEEN PROVEN GUILTY yet. Not Basso, Ullrich or Landis. The teams and cycling organisation react the way they do to illustrate that they are prepared to goto any lengths to keep their sport clean. Even if that means presuming guilt.

Don't believe everything you read either. Remember that cycling struggles to get coverage and understanding in the best of times. 99% of the journalists writing on this story are making it up as they go along to make things interesting. Truth is they don't have a clue what they're talking about. I even read one article today where someone twisted Landis' statement to imply that he blamed a beer for his elevated level of testosterone. PLEASE....

There are a lot of tests in cycling, true. The problem is of course that science (or tests used) do not seem to detect PEDs. Look at David Millar, Tricky Dicky etc. Why then should we not presume guilt when these details are released.
Jail terms do not happen because in most countries, taking PEDs is not a criminal offence.
I am sure employing good legal teams helps (where else did Tyler Hamilton come up with his excuse?)
i don't think you can blame journalists either. I think the more informed journalists have been pretty good in the broadsheet press this week.
Agreed a single shot/patch would not do much performance wise. Good preperation takes time. But we all know athletes are stupid at times. They live in a bubble.
With regard to OP and the withdrawals of Basso etc I do not think teams and organisers would be prepared to take such steps for fear of legal action, compensation claims etc unless they were pretty sure.
Several articles on the web have linked the beer issue to a Swedish study (used much stronger beer apparently than FL drank). Perhaps they were trying to reference to this.
But whatever you think of the mainstream press, their take on this, even if uniformed, is important because it leads the mainstream views and this is crucial in this country. And which ever way you dress it up, for procycling press/media are crucial. (Have a look at the comments of ZDF regarding coverage of the Tour on http://www.cyclingnews.com and also a reference to Blick paper in Switzerland). Liberty Seguros withdrawn, CV pulling the plug, apparently i-shares looking to pull out of their contract for next year onwards. Sponsors do not want adverse publicity. So it is going to kill the sport.

To Peter, I would say go and see a local event in the UK. Not as glamourous but you might see some interesting racing.

[Shockleader]

"I would say go and see a local event in the UK. Not as glamourous but you might see some interesting racing"

Hey Leurfit, this could be interesting maybe they could start with the Tour Of Britain!

[peter]

Thanks to everyone who has posted in this topic. I have read all these and also looked at other forums and obviously read the press. A comment in todays Times ref the sprinter who has failed a drugs test (Gatlin?) said that it seems you cannot win at the top level of sports these days without some illegal 'help'. For all those that get caught how many get away with it? I can imagine being a top athlete or cyclist who has trained long and hard for years and knowing you can never win a major race because you are racing against cheaters. So do you give up, carry on not winning or go down the drugs route? I realise that I cannot condemn those who go the drugs route as I haven't devoted a large part of my life trying to be the best - so how can I know how they feel. So do we say to hell with it, let them use whatever it takes? No I don't think so. However imperfect the testing methods (why, for example, are TDF riders not tested in the morning before they race instead of at the end of the day?) the various bodies have to continue and get better at it. Yes, there will be those that try and stay ahead of the testers, but if the punishment is so severe, eg life ban, then that has to deter the majority surely. I know Landis has not got his B test result yet but already his lawyer is working to try and wriggle out of it if it is positive. Apart from David Millar who I believe owned up, the standard technique seems to be to deny it from the start and blame it on some accidental or natural cause. That makes it tough to weed out the cheats.
I don't know if the Tour Of Britain will be televised but if it is I will watch it. And I will watch the Vuelta and next years TDF. So I have changed my position as a result of the comments here and elsewhere! Drugs in sport is a problem across the board and I hope the attempts to eliminate it get better. It may be that half the peleton are taking things they shouldn't but I have to admit that the big stage races are exciting and impressive so I would be daft to stop watching them just because of the doping 'scandals'. I love all sorts of sport and realistically I know they are all tainted at the top level because that is human nature - to want to win at all costs. I will not be encouraging my daughter to go into cycling or athletics any time soon though!

[aphextwin]

Peter

Your comment about not encouraging your daughter to take up athletics or cycling neatly sums up why doping is so pitiful.

Let's say that you display an aptitude at school for middle-distance running - you can easily beat fellow pupils without much training. You get interested in running, and join a local club, start training properly and improve to good county level. you win a few things and then step up to national-level competition.

You've managed to get this far without even knowing that performance-enhancing drugs exist, let alone been in contact with them. It's only when you move on to the professional level that drugs rear their ugly head - but you've already spent years showing that you're a great runner to get this far, and done it clean. You're not going to throw it all away now.

Now, among the professionals, doping is evident. Perhaps it really is because you've spent so many years wishing to be a professional that really drives you to 'do anything' for a win. Perhaps you realise that it isn't a level playing field and you have to join in to survive. Or maybe you think that doping is okay because there's your livelihood at stake, and you've got nothing else - why risk not doping if you know others are, and getting away with it too.

On these grounds, I definitely would discourage any son or daughter of mine aspire to be a professional sportsperson. But then, drugs are everywhere. There are definitely people at my place of work, and in every job I've ever had, that take recreational drugs (probably not all actually at work, though some do judging by the state of them).

All you can do is educate your kids on what drugs are all about, what they do to you and hope for the best... and that's scary.

[leurfit]

"I would say go and see a local event in the UK. Not as glamourous but you might see some interesting racing"

Hey Leurfit, this could be interesting maybe they could start with the Tour Of Britain!

Shockleader

Sure it is a good race to see, but I actually meant either a Premier Calander event or even better a 3/4 cat race (or whatever that is classed as now by BC). You can be pretty sure the riders are clean then.

[Shockleader]

Hi Leurfit,

OK the likelyhood of drugs would br small but unfortunately, even a premier calendar event will probably go unnoticed and unsupported (unless some poor saddo in a Chelsea tractor got held up), such is the effect cycling has on the sporting radar in the good old UK. What will be interesting will be the Tour in London next year.

[Harvey]

"(unless some poor saddo in a Chelsea tractor got held up)"
Why do you berate people for having a 4x4? I am a (new) cyclist and also fit into the stereotype 4x4 owner, e.g it is never used off road and primarily serves as a taxi for my son(20 mths) to and from nursery. Whats your problem with that? Are you following the crowd and thinking it cool to have a go at 4x4 drivers or do you have a real reason yourself. I bet you dont live in a wooden shack, recycle your own water or grow your own organic veg do you? No, i suspected not.

[TheFatControlleR]

I'd hardly call '...unless some poor saddo in a Chelsea tractor got held up...' being berated. If you want berated listen to Ken Livingstone's proclamations on 4x4s...